RPGVault has conducted their third interview [archive.org backup] with Ray Muzyka and Greg Zeschuk of BioWare, talking about the Baldur’s Gate series, Neverwinter Nights, and what influences they have had over the years. Here’s a snippet:
Jonric: In Neverwinter Nights, multiplayer seems to be a core design element whereas the Baldur’s Gate games were basically single-player with multiplayer capability added. To what degree is this description accurate, and in what ways has the shift in emphasis affected the development process?
Ray Muzyka: Yes, the Baldur’s Gate series was single-player focused while the development approach for Neverwinter Nights has been directed right from the start towards multiplayer. In fact, we learned a lot in the development of Baldur’s Gate about how to design a game to be easily adapted to multiplayer. Based on what we have learned, we created a powerful multiplayer engine for Neverwinter – the single-player game is basically a multiplayer session with only one player in it. This doesn’t detract in any way from the storyline of NWN however – we’re working hard to ensure that the story in NWN is just as good in solo mode as the storyline of say Baldur’s Gate II. Neverwinter Nights has very compelling single-player – both in the campaign shipping with the game, and in modules created by the fans. In fact, in some ways NWN will be more interesting to play, because you can alternate sessions (continuing through the storyline all the while) in either single- or multiplayer modes depending on how you want to play the game at various times.
As the original interview’s source is no longer available, we’ve preserved it here in the interest of posterity:
BioWare 2001 Interview, Part 3
November 30, 2001
In the waning days of 1998, CRPG fans received an eagerly awaited holiday gift with the release of Baldur’s Gate. After a few years in the doldrums, the genre was widely touted to be resurgent, contributing to an unprecedented level of media attention for months prior to publication. As a result, expectations were very high, but the game quickly surpassed them all. Critically, it swept the field as the top RPG of the year, and at the checkout stand, it sold over a million units, almost certainly a new record among serious CRPGs by a wide margin. Since then, developer BioWare has created the even more successful sequel, Baldur’s Gate II: Shadows of Amn, two notable expansion packs, Tales of the Sword Coast and Throne of Bhaal, and a well-received console action title, MDK2.
This truly enviable record has vaulted BioWare into a position among the most highly respected studios in the entire business. Nonetheless, with the potentially ground-breaking Neverwinter Nights nearing completion and Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic to follow, the future may be even brighter. Several weeks ago, we began a discussion with Greg Zeschuk and Ray Muzyka, the Joint CEOs who have guided the company during its whirlwind ascent. As always, both had many thoughtful and interesting things to say, so the dialogue became rather extended. Due to schedules and other factors, it was only recently that we finally had the chance to finish the conversation. In this new BioWare 2001 Interview, Part 3, they return to offer their insights on a range of topics including multiplayer, release dates, what they’re playing and more.
Jonric: To get going again, multiplayer capability for small groups has been highly publicized for the past few years, accompanied by dire predictions that single-player gaming is dead or dying. What are your thoughts about this? Do you feel multiplayer is as important and as popular in reality as the amount of attention it receives? And do you feel single-player is dying, or even unwell?
Greg Zeschuk: In our impression single-player gaming is still alive and very healthy. We are focusing considerable effort to make the single-player version campaign in Neverwinter Nights as memorable as anything we’ve ever done in the Baldur’s Gate series of games. We believe that if we have a solid single-player game, we will have access to a much greater audience than if we only focused on the multiplayer game.
Ray Muzyka: One reason multiplayer seems so important is that the people who are playing multiplayer games are a very vocal group. Obviously, they spend considerable time online and part of that time is spent making efforts to tell everyone how great their online experiences are. More people play single-player versions of games than those who do play multiplayer versions or pure multiplayer games – they just don’t talk about it as much. As well, it could be argued that multiplayer games are more compelling in some ways than single player games – you can’t reload if you die in Quake or an MMORPG – this increases the excitement of these games. Playing with other humans, rather than just AI, is also a factor in why multiplayer games are very interesting. Nevertheless, as Greg mentioned, we think that single-player games or mixed multiplayer/single-player games are still alive and well, and will continue to thrive, particularly as computer AI continues to improve to the point where you will be unable to tell whether you are playing against an AI or a human opponent in the future!
Jonric: In Neverwinter Nights, multiplayer seems to be a core design element whereas the Baldur’s Gate games were basically single-player with multiplayer capability added. To what degree is this description accurate, and in what ways has the shift in emphasis affected the development process?
Ray Muzyka: Yes, the Baldur’s Gate series was single-player focused while the development approach for Neverwinter Nights has been directed right from the start towards multiplayer. In fact, we learned a lot in the development of Baldur’s Gate about how to design a game to be easily adapted to multiplayer. Based on what we have learned, we created a powerful multiplayer engine for Neverwinter – the single-player game is basically a multiplayer session with only one player in it. This doesn’t detract in any way from the storyline of NWN however – we’re working hard to ensure that the story in NWN is just as good in solo mode as the storyline of say Baldur’s Gate II. Neverwinter Nights has very compelling single-player – both in the campaign shipping with the game, and in modules created by the fans. In fact, in some ways NWN will be more interesting to play, because you can alternate sessions (continuing through the storyline all the while) in either single- or multiplayer modes depending on how you want to play the game at various times.
Greg Zeschuk: What this means is we make design decisions based on the focus of the game. For example, the conversation system in Baldur’s Gate required all players to pause and watch the conversation, while the conversation system in Neverwinter Nights doesn’t require all people to pause for the conversation as it is duplicated both in text bubbles over the heads of the characters having the conversation, and in the text window at the bottom of the game screen. There are a number of decisions that we have made in Neverwinter Nights to facilitate multiplayer while being careful not to detract from single player.
Jonric: Neverwinter Nights has been receiving attention from gamers and the media for some time, ever since it was announced in early August of 1999. In what ways has this been beneficial and detrimental to the game and the team? Baldur’s Gate was in the media spotlight for quite a while as well. In what ways, if any, have the two situations differed?
Greg Zeschuk: There is considerable pressure on both the development team and the company from the attention focused on Neverwinter Nights. Complicating this situation is the success of the Baldur’s Gate series – people are expecting a lot from us. The main difference on Neverwinter in comparison to Baldur’s Gate is that we were clearly the underdog when we were making Baldur’s Gate and people had no idea what to expect with the game. With Baldur’s Gate, and even more so Baldur’s Gate II, we raised the bar to such a level that it will be a real challenge for us to exceed our previous efforts. However we do enjoy a challenge and that’s inspiring us to make Neverwinter Nights something special.
Ray Muzyka: BioWare has a higher profile now than we did then, so the pressure is definitely on us to make a great game with Neverwinter. Offsetting this is the fact that our development personnel are very experienced now in making great RPGs. I’m really proud of how hard the NWN team is working to craft something very special – they are a very smart, creative group of people and we have the utmost faith in their abilities. We certainly aren’t taking anything for granted – we recognise that we have a very high standard to uphold for our fans.
Jonric: Although BioWare has been careful about not issuing a release date, it’s clear that some gamers and media regard Neverwinter Nights as late. Why do you think these individuals are so concerned with firm release dates? And on a broader scale, what is it about game development that causes many games to take longer than originally expected?
Ray Muzyka: We really believe that games should not be shipped until they are at a really high level of quality – they need to be tested, balanced, re-tested, and above all, easy and fun to play! We have been working on Neverwinter Nights for a very long time, mainly because it’s a very ambitious project – we’re practically making four games in one, with the single-player storyline, multiplayer modes, dungeon master tools, and module building toolset. Neverwinter Nights is considerably larger than any game in the Baldur’s Gate series as we’re trying both to make a great single- and multiplayer game as well as to create a user-friendly toolset for people to use. I think most of the concerns come from people anxious to play the game as soon as possible. Believe me, we feel the same way – but we want to ensure that the game includes all the features that we have promised, and is at a high level of quality 🙂
Greg Zeschuk: There are two main types of projects that are made – those that are technically challenging (creating a brand new game system, a brand new engine or breaking completely new ground), and those that are not technically advanced (using an existing game engine or system). BioWare makes both technically challenging games (Baldur’s Gate and Neverwinter Nights) which take a very long time to make because of the uncertainty in many aspects of the projects; games that don’t push technical limits as much (Baldur’s Gate 2: Shadows of Amn, which used a largely already completed engine) that can be done in a more predictable amount of time. Understanding the type of game we’re making influences our expectations of the development process – will it be a short and easy development, or a complicated and difficult process? That depends on what we’re trying to accomplish.
Jonric: How much experience do you have playing massively multiplayer games? What are your feelings about this category in general, its potential and the major hurdles that must be overcome in order to realize this potential?
Ray Muzyka: I’ll defer to Greg on this one – he plays a lot more MMORPGs than I do; I generally go more for limited multiplayer or single-player games, both on PC and console. I do make a point of checking out almost all MMORPGs but try to limit my time in them so I can play more single-player games on PC and console…
Greg Zeschuk: I can probably lay claim to having considerable experience playing MMORPGs. I started at the text MUD and MUSH phase – Ray often tells stories about how it was impossible to reach my house years ago because my phone line was constantly busy due to modem use to support my MUD addiction. I played a considerable amount of Ultima Online, a brief span on EverQuest (I specifically prevented myself from playing because of my lack of impulse control), and most recently Anarchy Online followed by Dark Age of Camelot (which I’m playing and really enjoying almost every night of the week). In fact, some of the distillation of our ideas on Neverwinter Nights came from our experiences playing Ultima Online.
Overall, I have concerns about the number of titles in the category – I believe there’s a very finite group that play MMORPGs and they move from game to game depending on their experiences. The challenge in the category is to create a game that has a more broad appeal than the current games in existence – only in this way will the market be able to support multiple AAA online titles. A second point to make is that the category, prior to Dark Age of Camelot, was marred by very shaky product releases followed by painful bug fixing and balancing phases. Dark Age showed that it can be done right; I’ve been incredibly impressed with how well the game’s release has gone and how smartly Mythic has managed it – they deserve all the success they’re getting.
Jonric: On a broader scale, what has to happen for computer gaming in general to realize its potential? What are the major hurdles for the industry to overcome in order to become more mass market, or even to reach the level of popularity currently attained by console games?
Ray Muzyka: Definitely certain games do reach the mass market, both on consoles and on PC. Titles such as Diablo I and II, Half-Life, the Sims, WarCraft II, StarCraft, and even our own Baldur’s Gate I and II have all sold over a million units each, and the trend increasingly seems to be towards only the highest quality titles being able to achieve these sorts of sales results. I think this is because the video game audiences on both PC and console are becoming increasingly mature in their expectations for games – the bar is continually going up. We think this is a good trend because as gamers, we like to play only the best games ourselves – so if developers continue to raise the bar, we will be able to play better games too!
Greg Zeschuk: I think this is just starting to happen – the Sims and Diablo II have demonstrated incredible sales – certainly greater than most console game – and they are becoming more pervasive in our culture. As time passes and the right titles are released, gaming will gain greater prominence.
Jonric: Looking back over the past seven years, what events, accomplishments, etc. would you rate as the key landmarks in BioWare’s history, and why? And are there any particular things that stand out for personal reasons?
Greg Zeschuk: The two biggest events for me were the release of our first game, Shattered Steel, and the amazing success of the Baldur’s Gate series. It was really wonderful to see the people at BioWare work so hard and then have Baldur’s Gate exceed everyone’s expectations. Another significant event was the release of our first console title, MDK2 on Dreamcast, and the critical praise the game received was really icing on the cake. Finally the release of Neverwinter Nights will be truly special – we’re very excited to see what the community will create.
Ray Muzyka: I agree with Greg in that all of our games are landmarks to us, each in its own different way. I’d also add that our first few games – Shattered Steel, Baldur’s Gate, MDK2 in particular – really taught us a lot about how to, and also how not to, make games. When we made these games, no one at BioWare had ever worked on any video games before coming to the company, and I am really proud of what the teams accomplished given their relative lack of experience at the time. Greg and I continually remark on how incredibly lucky we have been to find such great people to work with at BioWare – all very smart and creative, and all extremely passionate about the art of making video games. The real landmarks at BioWare are the innovations that our staff come up with every day; I am confident that we will try our best to create ever-better games in the future.
Jonric: In your dual roles as Joint CEOs and Co-Executive Producers, what are your jobs like on a day to day basis? How do you divide the responsibilities and resolve differences of opinion? What has changed most since the early years, and is there anything you miss?
Greg Zeschuk: Ray and I split our duties in a few different ways: on the business side I handle a little more of the human resources issues, initial external business contacts and smaller contract wrangling while Ray spends more time on the finances of the company and the larger contract negotiations. But overall, we share all of these duties to some extent as joint CEOs.
Ray Muzyka: On the development side we share production duties, depending on availability – we focus equally on all of our projects as co-executive producers now and this arrangement works really well.
Greg Zeschuk: Our simple rule is there are two of us to make things more efficient, not to slow things down – if we can, we make decisions jointly, but if something needs to be decided quickly either one of us will take care of it. In terms of resolving differences of opinion, we meet over the foosball table and settle it there. The thing I miss most about the early years is the simplicity. I look back on some of our old correspondence (both internally and externally) and I’m shocked to see how straightforward things seemed at the time. Now it’s much more complicated.
Ray Muzyka: The reality of course is that it was just as complex back then, but we now know a lot more about making games and the business – but it sure seemed a heck of a lot easier when we didn’t know about all the potential pitfalls in the things we were dealing with. In retrospect, not knowing much then was probably a good thing since we always went headfirst into new challenges without thinking about the possibility that we could fail… as I mentioned earlier though, the biggest factor in BioWare’s success (aside from sheer luck, that is) was the great people that we have managed to attract to the company over the years – they deserve all the credit for BioWare’s successes to date. On the other hand, if we’ve done things wrong as a company, Greg and I share responsibility (culpability?) for that 🙂
Jonric: Do you get much time to play games these days, and how do you decide which ones to play? What has impressed you recently, and why? And aside from your own games, what are you looking forward to playing?
Greg Zeschuk: We both try and play games every day – we normally balance our playing between PC and console games, but most recently, I have to admit I’ve been bitten by the MMORPG bug. I started with Anarchy Online (which I enjoyed for the detail of its game system – had a 47th level Enforcer) and I’m now playing Dark Age of Camelot – I have an 19th level Paladin. Prior to that, I played Max Payne (which I really liked) and Anachronox (which I also enjoyed). It’s really funny because at the immediate time, I’ve got a ton of games piling up that I want to play – Arcanum and Civ 3 on the PC, and Ico, Silent Hill 2 and Devil May Cry on the PS2. And now, with two new consoles coming out I’m going to be in serious trouble. Down the road I’m looking forward to Dungeon Siege, Morrowind and Final Fantasy X.
Ray Muzyka: Right now, I’m playing a few games on a variety of systems. Halo on the Xbox is really impressing me with both the single-player mode and the cooperative and competitive multiplayer modes. DOA3 is another great fighting game on the Xbox that I’m trying to play through. I’m about an hour away from finishing Metal Gear Solid II (I’m a huge fan of that series) on the PS2, and am also playing Devil May Cry, and looking forward to trying Ico. Super Monkey Ball is a very fun game on the GameCube – highly recommended – I also want to play Rogue Squad Leader on GameCube, which I haven’t yet started. There have been a lot of good FPSs on the PC recently – I finished Max Payne about two months ago (for the third time), and just started playing Aliens versus Predator. On the PC, I am really looking forward to Return to Castle Wolfenstein, Morrowind, and Dungeon Siege as well as our own Neverwinter Nights (which both Greg and I are currently playing at least several evenings each week, finding bugs). Finally, Castlevania on the Game Boy Advance is a lot of fun (I’m about 2/3 through that game). It’s a great time to be a gamer with all of the options of systems and games – the only major problem seems to be finding the time to play them all!
Jonric: And finally, if you could magically change one thing about either BioWare or the industry in general, what would it be and why?
Greg Zeschuk: I’d make it easier to make games. Sure a lot of people would be doing it, but it would certainly save us a lot of time.
Ray Muzyka: Though this is probably a cop-out, I wouldn’t change anything – though making games is stressful at times, it’s also very intellectually challenging, and hence a lot of fun!
For a writer who specializes in CRPGs, the opportunity to talk about games with two accomplished and well-spoken game makers like Greg and Ray is intellectually rewarding, and hence a lot of fun. The only possible improvement that comes to mind would be to do it over a cold adult beverage or two. Maybe next time, but for the moment, our sincere thanks to both of them for making the time to finish up this lengthy and thought-provoking three-part interview.
Selected Links
BioWare 2001 Interview, Part 2 – October 5, 2001
BioWare 2001 Interview, Part 1 – September 28, 2001
Baldur’s Gate II: Throne of Bhaal Review – June 27, 2001
Baldur’s Gate II: Throne of Bhaal Interview – April 4, 2001
Baldur’s Gate II: Shadows of Amn Special Report – December 7, 2000
Baldur’s Gate II: Shadows of Amn Interview – November 26, 1999
Neverwinter Nights Interview – August 7, 1999
Baldur’s Gate: Tales of the Sword Coast Review – July 2, 1999
Baldur’s Gate Review – February 11, 1999
BioWare (Baldur’s Gate) Interview – April 26, 1998
Richard Aihoshi – “Jonric”
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